LNT meeting August 23 2016 -------------------------- 5:09P: ------ There was unanimous approval for the topical, with no asterisks, that includes publications. Daryll said that the next important step is to start the call for papers so that we can start putting together the program. The program that we have currently is basically a template but we need to flesh out the real deal. So we need to start advertising/announcing the call for papers early. He wants to know if it we could get some ANS news to publish an announcement on this. It was asked why the call for papers isn't normally any earlier than eight months. Ron pointed out that this is normally done so that people in government organizations can plan in a manner that allows them to get funding to attend the meeting. Daryl is planning to write up a bunch of articles about the topical to drum up interest. He seems confident that he can get those article published as well. 5:14P ----- The highly conservative public does limit is the issue that is costing lots of money in cleanup (1mSv for the public and 5mSv for fetus (yearly)). Daryl is pointing out that the committees that are meeting right now ICRP is putting together the limits and standards that are going to be used for the next 20 years. We are two years away from the topical but Daryl wants to get the call for papers out now. Alan is asking if there would be any technical reason as to why we shouldn't publish a call for papers right now? Daryl wants to know the format that should be used for ANS with regards to announcing the call for papers. Wanda doesn't seem to think that there is a format anymore. She said that there used to be but, that she doesn't think so anymore. Wanda is thinking that there might be a word limit for the announcement. Daryl is waiting for approval from Alan before staring to send out the announcement and Alan is going to wait to hear from Wanda before giving it the green light. 5:23P ----- Ron suggested that if we want to announce a call for papers that we should contact the editor of the publication... Ron and Daryl are going to put together a first draft of the call for papers and show it to the group here. There shouldn't be a deadline on this first call for papers, it is just an announcement. Ron is saying that after a paper is submitted to the committee for review, that they would get back to the submitter about the length, format and etc. Alan brought up that in a previous meeting we were anticipating papers being around 2 pages in length, and around 40 of them so that they would fit within that 100 page special edition publication. Alan said that he wished Wayne was there so that these details could be hashed out. 5:27P ----- Please send us your initial interest including: your name, the speech title, and short abstract about what they want to talk about. There will be a special call for those names that are already in the program today. Alan said that right now, the length is whatever constitutes the 2 pages within the HPS journal. Daryl is pointing out that 2 pages is actually quite short and that the abstract will probably occupy about 1/3 of that limit. Usually when you accept a paper, that is when you inform the person of the length limits, and etc. Daryl doesn't really want to spend any more time today discussing these details. What he wants today is to get Alan's approval to start the call for papers. Daryl is saying that there will be several different types of calls for papers, initially we will only be asking for abstracts... with some sort of word limit 300-500 words. An abstract is needed. 5:32P ----- The journal could be issued in two volumes for 250 pages. Limits for abstracts should be around 300 words. Alan wants to know how long people should have to submit their abstracts. Depending on the response, we may not need to put out any additional calls for papers. Ultimately, when we put out a call for papers we are saying, we are going to have a meeting do you want to have some input on it -- Ron. In the first announcement, it is just an announcement... the announcement and the call for papers are two different things. Daryl is saying that we are going to write some little articles for a bunch of different publications, including physics today. This topic right now is one of the hottest topics with the HPS community. Nuclear news and similar publications are not peer reviewed and as such, they don't have as much lead time, sometimes it only takes a month. 5:38P ----- There is some discussion as to whether or not we want to mention our intention of trying to get that limit changed from the get-go. It was asked whether or not we should get a politician to come, the chairman of the NRC was mentioned. Alan contacted Rod Adams and Rod said that he would be willing to come out and write something for every day of the meeting. Ron was saying that back when he was the president of (?the HPS?), that he invited members of the press to come to the meeting and that the Denver Post sent a reporter and that the reporter actually wrote something positive about the meeting. Wanda pointed out that lately the Denver Post has been incredibly anti-nuclear as of late and that maybe they wouldn't be the best choice. Ron said that typically the press does not come to these sorts of meetings since these sorts of meetings have a reputation for being both over their heads but also they are suspicious of us. Not only newspapers, but also publicity from TV would also be good. He mentioned the old adage that any publicity is good publicity. 5:45P ----- Daryl is pointing out that what we will be doing is a series of messages: Announcements and call for papers in a series of events that will be tailored for the specific need. Daryl is stating that we are going to need those abstracts much sooner than 6 months before the conference, ideally, he would like them to start coming in around November and December of this year. The final date that he would like to see them coming in would be around 8 months from the meeting. Daryl wants to ask the chair to let us be creative and innovative... The initial call for papers may start off sounding like: "We would like an expression of interest..." Daryl is saying that we are taking an innovative approach to this so that we will have enough time to construct a worthwhile program. After the first call we will will be able to gage the interest. Based on the responses from the initial call for papers, we will be able to adjust or tailor our follow-up calls for papers because we will have a better understanding of what the people out there are interested on. 5:50P ----- Ron is asking Alan that if Daryl goes home and writes the announcement for the first call for papers... how long till it gets out to people. He is thinking that likely, this wouldn't go out until December, in which case we might not be getting those abstracts back until March of 2017. Wanda is hoping that we have ready to respond to people, will be who is on our review committee. 5:55P ----- It was pointed out that some people have in the past submitted abstracts multiple times before they were finally accepted. It was pointed out that when those little fliers for the topical were handed out that there was A LOT of interest in it. The DOE even said that they could probably fund this. Daryl said that we have had positive responses from: Michale Achinsoon, Wes Brady, (an ICRP guy (name not caught)), Jary Cutler, Larry Dowler, and Matt Milley. Mettler declined, no response from the Japanese Colleague and there are four people that he can't contact. Cisco, Helmet, Pam, and Jerald Thomas, a few other people that Daryl has not been able to contact due to lack of email addresses. That is the status of the program committee. Ron wants to know how many papers we are expecting to have presented at this meeting. People are thinking that it will a lot.... Alan thinks that it would be at least 50 papers, he would be surprised if there were less than that. If there end up being too many, we might need to have a poster session. Daryl wants Alan to contact Micky Brady personally since he has not been responding to Dary. This list of people is balanced in that they are all scientists. It is balanced geographically and by gender. 6:03P ----- It seems like there is a bit of disconnect in that Daryl has Draft 5, but that Alan has Draft 9. Daryl requested specifically that I notate that Alan send that Draft 9 to Daryl and to Ron. There is an issue of priority with regards to these people regarding money and being able to pay for people. Right now the budget is around $7000 for getting people out here. Caroly Marcus and Darll Brenner are the only two people that we have promised money to for them to attend and this is important because they have opposing viewpoints on this. Ron is pointing out that we can't predict the cost of airfare to the conference... Daryl is saying that we are too far away to start picking people to fund. $2000/per person is being thrown around as a decent estimate of the cost for bringing people covered. Bob pointed out to Alan that the $7000 that we have is the start, and that we need to put in some effort to grow that budget. 6:09P ----- Is there any sort of title that we can give to people that we want to help motivate people to help support the meeting. Allowing people to be a session chair was thrown around. Ron asked Alan if he is now comfortable with the way we are planning to go out and seek participants. The thing is that Ron and Daryl will handle that. It sounds like they would like Alan to contact (two people (names not caught)). Ludvig said to be positive that this topical would be able to instigate change and that we may want to set up some sort of straw man for a path to work towards an improvement. He said that he wants to put together a pre-meeting (with a bunch of people that Alan is unfamiliar with). Ron reiterated that this is the reason that we want to have a politician out there. Ron wants to know what the purpose of this pre-meeting would be because it seems to run contrary to scientific openness. 6:16P ----- Ron doesn't seem to be totally in agreement that Ludvig is aiming to try and get the dose limit changed. He appears to be concerned that if are picking the agenda and selecting the people the topics, then we are somewhat stacking the decks in the favor of our decision. We would like to see this meeting affect the ICRP which has screwed things up. 6:26P ----- Daryl pointed out that ICRP makes the recommendation and then the NRC and others implement those recommendations. If we have any chance, the ICRP would be the people that we could influence to make changes. Alan is concerned with our communication with Anna. Wanda send her a message asking if she was going to join us at all and she hasn't yet got any response. Alan wants to know who we have to write to in the DOE to see if they will be a sponsor. Tony was put down as the guy to look into it. Alan would really like to see the DOE as a sponsor. Mike will cover EM on cleanup costs. IAEA, we are ready to send out the letter, he just wishes that we had the letterhead. Our chairman will write a letter to (somebody), Ron is saying that when you send a letter, you send high and chances are they aren't going to throw it away. Instead, they are going to pass it down the line however, when that happens the letter comes from up above. 6:34P ----- Ron is suggesting that Mike is the right guy to do this. Alan is saying that we should go right for (Moniz?). Ron agrees with him. Ron also suggested that you need to tell them who is associated with it, tell them we have a former ANS president and etc. This sort of thing will make it more difficult to ignore and increase our likelihood of getting help. Ron is pointing out that sometimes looking for supporters isn't only for financial reasons but sometimes it should be done so that we can list them to improve our credibility. (the CRCD was mentioned as something that we might want to contact, send something to Ruth McBernie?, who lives in Austin, TX). What other groups should we contact. Alan wants to know if there is any reason why we shouldn't ask people like the JAEA and the Korean A. Virginia will be put down as a person to do some contacting of this sort. 6:40P ----- ... Doug suggested that he would like to bring a lot of people to the meeting and that he could cover them. We are thinking that the DOE and Bruce Power would be our greatest potential sources of money. Also NEI would be a great group to contact, and also EPRI should be contacted. Ron suggests that we should also contact AEPM and Society for Nuclear Medicine. They probably won't send us money but it would be good to get in contact with them. Alan said on to Exhibits. It sounds like we were held up initially because Steve was waiting for information. Daryl pointed out that we have enough information in that first announcement. Steve said that he is putting all of this stuff up on web pages. He said that he has been including these sorts of links down at the end of the meeting minutes so that everybody can have access to these things. Alan stated that he has been having a lot of trouble lately with Anna. Ron wanted to point out that Daryl has carried the load tremendously. He wanted to express his appreciation for the committee. 6:51P ----- About the next meeting, we are looking at Tuesday the 20th of September. It sounds like Daryl will be out of town then... after discussion it sounds like the 27th will work out a lot better for the bulk of the group. They are leaning towards 4:30-6:30PM for the next meeting. It sounds like this will work out quite well for Alan since he has to commute back. There is an event happening out at B-reactor on the 30th of September with a dinner, hosted by the Mid-Columbia Mastersingers. And he is going to circulate an email to the group about it. Daryl is talking about the Bill McKay trio and saying that they are some of the best performers in the Tri-Cities. Tony says, he is going to get Pam Sykes address and check DOE and Bruce Power for funding and then Daryl is going to make a first draft of a paper to send to him. Alan is going to write to a number of people but Daryl also wants him to write to Ludvig and get him to ask for Helmets email address.